MSN Music and Justin Bieber

Justin Bieber's back -- but he never went away. With a steady string of well-timed singles, appearances, perfumes and even parodies, he has kept himself in the public eye ahead of his new album, "Believe." Will his fans stay Beliebers? Martha Brockenbrough and Mark Brown weigh in.
Martha Brockenbrough: It's easy to hate Justin Bieber. He was responsible for the worst trend in male haircuts since George Clooney brought back the Caesar. He wears low pants, has a signature fragrance and talks like a gangster when we all know he's from Canada. But I refuse to drink the haterade.
For all his faults, the Biebs has a remarkable life story. He's the child of a low-income teen mom who taught himself to sing and play a variety of instruments, and he managed to get himself discovered and parlay all of that into a global empire more quickly than many of us can decide what color to paint the family room.
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Whether you like his music or not, there's no denying the kid has talent and drive -- two things in stunningly short supply today, especially in boys, if you believe the headlines. Imagine if more kids had that kind of vision and commitment. I, for one, would not worry as much about the future.
Mark Brown: It's actually hard to hate Bieber or the eternally preening Taylor Swift; if you don't like the "talent," you've got to admire the drive. But it's plenty easy to be annoyed by them. The Beatles had one of the most managed, carefully crafted images in music history, but there was an underlying authenticity (and, of course, superb music). Bieber feels less like a musician than a Doritos product rollout: songs by committee, key placements with big names, using every trick in the book. Even his self-deprecating bit with Jimmy Fallon -- which makes me laugh every time I see it -- feels micro-managed to the nth degree. I've heard his music, I've seen him live -- and I have no idea who this guy really is.
Martha Brockenbrough: Oh, I am so glad you're not extending your net of hate to include Taylor Swift. I'd have to hunt you down and play a heartfelt ballad in your FACE.
The Biebs and Taylor Swiffer might be annoying. (But please, don't miss this Mad TV parody of the Swiffer.) That said, if a whiff of annoyingness becomes a reason to dismiss a pop culture legend, I'm going to cross my arms and say "Yellow Submarine" in your general direction. Even geniuses take us on a bad trip now and then.
Which is not to say that Justin Bieber is a genius. But he does actually play instruments. He can sing. He writes music. These three things put him ahead of the vast majority of today's pop stars, who make Milli Vanilli look like Mozart and Beethoven.
Do you really think if the Beatles came out today they wouldn't be sucked into the same giant industry machine and excreted with their own fragrance? (Smells like strawberry fields!) In a similar vein, if you stuffed Justin Bieber in a time machine and sent him back, don't you think he could hold his own against other teen heartthrobs?
Mark Brown: Nothing's the same today -- the Beatles, Elvis, Stones, U2, etc.
would all struggle. But in the time machine, Bieber could hold his own -- briefly. He'd be another Leif Garrett or Macaulay Culkin. His advantage -- and his Achilles' heel -- is that in these modern times he's being packaged, measured out and presented so that he won't melt down in two years and become a casualty. Madonna set the standard to be an ongoing cash cow, and Bieber's people clearly see that potential in him. The industry has also learned the lessons of Amy Winehouse, and that situation will not repeat here.
Martha Brockenbrough: I see Bieber more as a Donny Osmond, which I mean in a good way. They have the same extreme cuteness, and Donny Osmond's claims to be a "little bit rock 'n' roll" were about as plausible as Justin Bieber as a genuine sexytime player.
The problem that you're touching on here and mentioned earlier is how the music industry transforms people into products. That can lead to an overly processed sound and a certain generic-ness to the music. But there's a worse aspect in human terms. These people, as products, are worth so much money that they are surrounded by manipulators who don't have their best interests and health at heart. I'd like to think the industry has learned some sort of lesson there, but I doubt it.
The real question is whether Justin Bieber will be allowed to grow into his potential as a singer, songwriter and performer. Think about what it was like being a teenager. It involves a lot of identity experimentation. Few kids truly know who they are. Fewer still have the guts to express it. In the relentlessly commercial pop arena, originality isn't a great asset. It's the only thing that will keep a career going in the long haul, though.
So can the creative spark that launched Justin Bieber's career on YouTube survive as he transitions to adulthood? And can he take control over it?
Mark Brown: Two things: Donny Osmond is still "Donny Osmond" 30-plus years down the line. Not a good thing. If that's Team Bieber's plan, they need to do some serious rethinking. Whether Bieber will be "allowed to grow" is the decision of no one but Bieber. He's an adult now. It's not "Can he take control over it?" but "Will he take control over it?" Granted, at 18 he has the drive of Paul McCartney, Prince, Stevie Wonder or Madonna, aided by much more powerful music-career machinery. Those artists went on to transform themselves into some of the most acclaimed artists in music. Has he shown the talent to make even an MC Hammer career happen?
Martha Brockenbrough: Let's see: MC Hammer has given pop culture history "hammer time," the "Too Legit to Quit" hand gesture and hammer pants. Bieber has inspired a half-generation of boys to get a haircut they will regret when they look back at their middle school yearbooks. So, that's probably a wash.
I think there's no question that he has the talent to remain relevant. The question is more one of taste. When performers pander to the expectations of their listeners instead of evolving, they turn themselves into a joke. Will he evolve and grow? Or will he turn into Wayne Newton?
I couldn't stand Madonna in the mid '80s when girls all around me were decking themselves out in oversize rosaries and flashing their bra straps. In retrospect, though, I like the vintage music and am interested in her new music because she keeps trying new things. Because she has taste (maybe not in men or movies), she has a good sense of what is worth pursuing.
So, how would you evaluate Bieber's taste (and please no "like chicken" jokes)?
More on Bing: Justin Bieber
Mark Brown: I guess that's the problem: I don't know what his tastes are. Saying yes to Usher and Ludacris is a no-brainer. Saying yes to every opportunity that comes his way (the "We are the World" remake? Really?) is a recipe for disaster, as Lady Gaga found out now that the world no longer hangs on her every outfit change. He has put his career in the hands of the pros (the song "Die in Your Arms" has 13 co-writers and the "Believe" album has 18 producers for 13 tracks. People complain about "corporate rock." This is multinational conglomerate rock. Where, exactly, is Justin Bieber in all this?
Martha Brockenbrough: This is where music stops being music and becomes a musical product. I'm not against having many people working on something. There's a lot to be said for creative input of like-minded people. But there is a limit to it. It's sort of like those suburban houses that have more bathrooms than people living in them. It becomes less about what makes sense and more about making a statement. In the world according to me, when you try to make a statement with your toilet, you are not trying to say the right thing.
I'm with you on the futility of remaking "We Are the World," where the original came from such a genuine place. More, I am appalled by the crass decision to launch a second fragrance. That's the thing when you come up with a signature scent. Unless you're Elizabeth Taylor, you have just the one. (Confession: I tested Bieber's Someday and did not hate it.)
More to the point, it's cliché at this point to be a celebrity with a perfume. Even Snooki has one. Clichés are evidence of an absent or low level of taste. Yes, the world consumer market has a certain appetite for the familiar. But once you do what everyone else is doing and has done, then you have nothing new to offer and are vulnerable. People will want something new.
So maybe this is the point where Beliebers make their plea. Do something different. Do it better. And make it something only you can do, Justin Bieber. Otherwise, we'll be left with nothing of the memory of the time we were on that field trip bus and you had a pack of Skittles to share and ended up with nothing but cavities to remind you of the sweet but empty time.
Martha Brockenbrough is the author of several books, most recently "Devine Intervention," a novel about the world's most inept guardian angel, the girl he accidentally kills and the 24 hours they have to sneak her soul into heaven before she disappears forever. It has been optioned for film by the director of "Ghost." the screenwriter of "Mrs. Doubtfire" will adapt the script.
Mark Brown is a veteran music journalist who was pop critic for the Rocky Mountain News until its demise. He is also a contributor to MSN Music's Reverb and Scene & Heard blogs.
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